How Creative Destruction Lab Builds Startups Without Taking Equity

[00:00:00] Kai Heineman: I put 50% emphasis on the team, which I think that surprises people. They're like, "Oh, why would you not think the product? Obviously, the product is what's going to sell." When it comes to startup, it's going to be the team that makes or breaks a company.

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[00:00:14] Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Startup Wisconsin Podcast, a show where you can learn about Wisconsin's growing tech scene through stories of startups, founders, investors, and the talented people making it all happen. My guest today is Kai Heineman. Kai is a venture manager at Creative Destruction Lab at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where she leads the health and wellness stream.

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[00:00:37] She's a former engineer turned startup builder. If you haven't heard of Creative Destruction Lab, or CDL for short, it's a global nonprofit that started in Toronto back in 2012, and it works a little differently than most accelerators. There's no fees, no equity, and no IP. Instead of the usual accelerator trade, CDL runs on a philanthropic model funded by donations from visionary entrepreneurs, corporate partners, and the host universities.

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[00:01:05] The whole thing is built around the one resource founders never have enough of, which is time. Instead of lecturing founders, CDL connects them to a global community of mentors, world-class scientists, operators, investors, and people who have built and sold companies themselves. In this conversation, we get into how the program actually works, why CDL chose Wisconsin, what surprises founders when they land in Madison, and a success story or two from ventures that have come through their program. We also talk about who CDL is looking for and what separates the founders who thrive from the ones who struggle.

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[00:01:41] All right, folks, let's get into it

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[00:01:43] Kai Heineman: So I work with science and technology-based founders, especially in health and wellness.

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[00:02:01] I help them sharpen their strategy, connect with the right mentors, uh, and build commercially viable companies that have real-world impact. Uh, my path has taken me from bench science to geospatial engineering, uh, the National Science Foundation, and now the crazy world of venture development

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[00:02:19] Jacob Miller: So I, I kind of want to dig into that a little bit. Uh, so before we get into, like, all the, the Creative Destruction Lab stuff, um, and how and why they ended up in Madison, um, I would just love to hear about your story a little bit to give people some background. again, you c- you kind of shared you have an interesting path, you know, uh, working within the sciences, within engineering, um, and now you're in venture management.

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[00:02:40] So, like, maybe talk about that a little bit. Like, what kind of gave you the itch to get into each of those parts of your career, and what kind of led up to where you are today?

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[00:02:49] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of been a, it's been a crazy ride. Um, I started just as a biology undergrad, was really convinced that I wanted to be a doctor. you know, did some shadowing there and I was like, "Oh, wow, actually, I don't think that's what I quite wanna do." Um, and really, what, what started the whole, um, going down the route of engineering was I was just on the UW job board as any student does, um, and I saw a geospatial engineering position.

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[00:03:14] I was like, "Oh, what's that?" And I'm, I'm someone who, will definitely go down a rabbit hole, and I kinda dug down and I was like, "Wow, this is, this is really interesting." went through the interview process, had no engineering background. for some reason they, they took a chance on me, and I absolutely loved it.

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[00:03:29] I did it for, for years, you know, part-time, full-time as much as I could. Um, and that really sparked my, my love for engineering. and then after that I was like, "Wow, I, I have to keep going with this. I don't have enough, academic background on this." Uh, and then I, uh, continued. Uh, was doing my PhD in biomedical engineering.

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[00:03:48] and as I got a year or two in, I was wondering exactly what I was doing in, in the wet lab. kept coming to a crossroads of like, "Why am I doing what I'm doing?" And I was talking to, you know, my, my PI, my fellow lab mates, and they're like, "Oh, yeah, I just, I just wanna be called Doctor." I'm like, " that's not my why."

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[00:04:08] Um, so I actually, I mastered out of my, my program, and it just kind of happened that, at that point, the, the Creative Destruction Lab actually came and found me just based, um, on my background and, you know, having my connections in the entrepreneurial community. they wanted me to, to come work for them, and that's how I went down the rabbit hole of, of, uh, startup and venture management and got some positions there, and that's why I'm here today

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[00:04:32] Jacob Miller: Awesome. 

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[00:04:41] Yeah, so let's talk about Creative Destruction Lab. I would love to know, like, you know, what is the 101 of, you know, what is it? How does the program work? and kind of like maybe what makes it a little different from other programs that you've seen or experienced as-- now that you're a big part of it 

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[00:04:47] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. so the Creative Destruction Lab, it's actually a, a global community. Um, the program started back in 2012, in Toronto. Um, it's actually a nonprofit, which is really uncommon for these types of programs. You know, you think of, Y Combinator or gener8tor, those are all for-profit.

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[00:05:05] And their structure is typically, you know, they give you, like, 100K and they take 7% of your company, and that's the trade-off. CDL's pretty different. Um, like I said, nonprofit, but it's also for those seed stage companies. Um, but it's no fees, no equity. Everything is time-based. So we recognize at this time, time is the most important resource, uh, for founders.

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[00:05:26] so it's also anti-content. That means, you know, we're not really going to be lecturing at you. You know, we're not gonna be providing any sort of hand-holding. Uh, really what the founders are getting out of this program is having this global community of mentors. So, you know, think world-class scientists, operators, investors, clinicians, and people who have successfully exited themselves.

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[00:05:46] you know, VP of Tesla, VP of Johnson & Johnson. We have a, lot of big players. and effectively how the program actually works is it's, it's a year-long process, so it's a big commitment in, in that way. but at the same time, it's, it's really light touch. So we- we're only meeting with the founders every eight weeks.

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[00:06:05] So we're gonna take this time to set and assess and a- accelerate any critical company milestones that they have at this point. but really what I would say the value is, um, out of the program is in between those sessions. So in between those eight weeks or two months, you're having individualized mentorship from mentors that are, going to be helpful for you.

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[00:06:26] So if you're a founder and you're like, "Wow, I really, I have no idea how to set up a, a pitch deck," or, "My pitch deck isn't resonating and I need to raise money," you're gonna have those investors raise their hand for you, um, and help you. Or if you're like go-to-market, you'll have those sort of, mentors, but it's really going to be individualized, and I think that's kind of what sets CDL apart from other accelerators

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[00:06:45] Jacob Miller: Yeah. 

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[00:06:59] You talked about like mentorship and access to like people and resources globally, but how do you guys think about balancing that with, you know, local mentorship? 'Cause I saw there were some mentors, um, locally in, in the Madison location or the Madison effort. yeah, I guess how do you think about that and like what, what was it like, I mean, how do you guys approach like choosing who those mentors are, how they get involved and, and like, I guess is there, is there like a, a different approach of the global network versus the local network?

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[00:07:12] Like how do you guys think about that? 

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[00:07:14] Kai Heineman: I would say, um, at least for CDL Wisconsin, we definitely start local, so we're looking at, you know, people who are operators at the UW Health System, or, you know, we have Mayo Clinic just down the street. and then also local, local investment, partners as well.

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[00:07:30] So any people who are in the Angel community or VC community, you know, think HealthX, Wisconsin Investment Partners, people like that. so that's, that's definitely where we start. but as the, as the cohort goes along and we're, you know, coming down to, you know, session two or three, that's when we start to open it up to a global community 'cause we don't want to spread you too thin.

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[00:07:51] And that's the huge thing with, you know, being a startup in any sense, is you don't want to spread yourself too thin, 'cause that's where you... When you're in the valley of death, that's really where the huge problem is and where you may burn yourself out. Um, so we try to keep it, you know, pretty, pretty specific, you know, pretty narrow when you start out.

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[00:08:08] And then as you're able to, like, gain a little bit more bandwidth, whether that be, you know, expand your company or, you know, have more, have more people, um, to, to back you up, that's when we start to expand and allow you to, "Okay, here's some mentors from CDL London or, um, San Sebastian that you can tap into."

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[00:08:24] But we kind of start you pretty focused and then expand it a little bit later if that, if that makes sense.

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[00:08:29] Jacob Miller: Yeah. 

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[00:08:32] What is kind of like a day in the life, for a session when a founder like maybe starts your program or maybe they're in the thick of it? Like, what do you feel like are like really beneficial sessions for people where they kind of have these kind of moments of clarity or maybe just like their eyes open up a little bit where like, "Oh," like, "I have to change my direction," or, "Oh, I have to think about this seriously because I never thought about it before."

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[00:08:51] Yeah, maybe, maybe walk through some of that.

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[00:08:53] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great question. I would say there's a couple of instances that happens in, and one is like during the session day when you're actually, you know, coming to an in-person session, it is like a full day intensive workshop where you're just having, you know, shots fired at you, but it's really to help build you up essentially.

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[00:09:13] so what a session looks like is, during the morning we have something called, small room, uh, meetings, and this is where we have, um, all of our mentors and startup founders in these little rooms together. And you can kind of think of it as like speed dating. It's like 20 minutes where there's, you know, usually you're one or two founders and maybe three or four mentors, and you're getting into the nitty-gritty of where...

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[00:09:37] What's your company? What are you doing right now? Where do you need to go? and I think this is where you're having a lot of these like aha moments 'cause the founder life is super lonely. you're talking to yourself, you know, you're talking to like maybe your AI or your one other founder, and you're kind of in this same iterative process with yourself.

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[00:09:54] You're not able to have that soundboard opportunity of people who have either been where you are before and had a successful exit or, you know, are a gatekeeper to somewhere that you need to go and are able to like unlock a door for you. so I think that's probably the, the biggest, you know, time where you get to have that sort of aha moment or move forward.

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[00:10:14] and then the other side of it is, like I said, that individualized mentorship that you have in between sessions. You know, that's really also where you're able, again, to get into the nitty-gritty of, you know, I need help in X, Y, Z areas of my company. you know, how can you help me with this? Or, you know, this is an idea that I have.

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[00:10:32] You know, what do you think about it? Again, that sort of soundboarding process, that's where you're able to spend, you know, more than 20 minutes, you know, let's say, you know, several hours over the course of, you know, a few weeks with these mentors to, to really dig in and see, oh, actually, you know, maybe I shouldn't be in this beachhead.

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[00:10:47] Maybe I should start here since it's closer to revenue or, you know, whatever it may be

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[00:10:50] Jacob Miller: Yeah, yeah. 

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[00:10:52] Uh, do, do you maybe want to clarify? Uh, it sounds like the program is built around like three objectives. Like what are those kind of three objectives for sessions and, and why does that structure seem to work really well for you?

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[00:11:02] Kai Heineman: it's all about narrowing and a huge issue with the valley of death, you know, that we call in startup where, you know, you have a little bit of traction and you're like, okay, you know, we're not, we're not actually gonna commercialize, is spreading yourself too thin, and we want you to be hyper, hyper-focused on what are the top three things that we need to get done, um, and are we actually able to, to meet those?

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[00:11:24] So generally we try to have them in slightly different categories as well. Of course, you're gonna always be working on a million things as you're a startup founder, but we need to make sure that over the eight weeks you're at least getting three major things done. So usually one is around investment.

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[00:11:39] You know, there's typically, you know, some amount of money that's being raised throughout the, the CDL program for each venture. Um, so okay, I wanna close 100K or I want to secure a lead investor. Another one could be a, a go-to-market objective. You know, I wanna get my first LOI, my first customer, whatever it may be.

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[00:11:58] and I think those things really make sure that you also, when you have your individualized mentorship, that you know what you need to be working on. And, you know, if we can provide intros for you, if we can provide, um, potential investment for you, that you are able to focus on those and you're able to see throughout the year, wow, I actually did get this much done and I'm able to propel myself forward 

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[00:13:26] Jacob Miller: I wanna move into, like, why Wisconsin? 'Cause it was, it was started in Toronto. There's obviously, you know, different e- uh, initiatives all across the globe, um, or chapters. I'm not sure how you, how you define them. Um, like, you know, do you know why they decided to go with Madison, uh, or, or Wisconsin as a whole?

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[00:13:44] Like, do, do you know? I'm curious.

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[00:13:47] Kai Heineman: Yeah. it's kind of an interesting path. So how CDL works effectively is, yeah, like I said, started in Toronto, um, but we partner with different academic institutions across the world. So, you know, we have London, San Sebastian, Estonia, like anywhere that, that you can think of. but Wisconsin is a hub for American family insurance.

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[00:14:07] Um, so that is the first stream that started at CDL Wisconsin was the risk and insurance stream. so that was a big, you know, proponent. You know, they really wanted to start that. They wanted to, have a stream that was able to find sort of these risk and insurance companies. and then also, you know, there's, we also have the health and wellness stream, which I lead obviously.

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[00:14:26] it's honestly slept on the, the, the health system and the hospital system and the wellness system that we have in Wisconsin. Like I said, we're right next to Mayo Clinic. UW Health System is huge. have Froedtert, you know, all those in Milwaukee as well. There's such a wealth of knowledge right here in Wisconsin that, you know, people don't really realize, and it just was a no-brainer to, to be able to bring all of these, um, huge players together and, you know, help, help build something massive effectively. 

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[00:14:58] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Okay. That, yeah, that totally makes sense. Right partner, right place, all that kind of 

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[00:15:02] Kai Heineman: Yeah, exactly 

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[00:15:04] Jacob Miller: I'm actually curious around, um, I guess how those partners kind of get involved too. So for example, the American Family, like what, what does that look like? You know, obviously you're more involved with the, like the health tech and, and health innovation.

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[00:15:16] Um, what does it look like when a partner gets involved? W- is it, you know, you talked about some distribution or first customers and stuff like that, but what does the typical relationship look like, uh, with CDL and then a partner?

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[00:15:29] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's a great question. Um, it's kind of twofold. So for someone like American Family Insurance, part of it is sponsorship, and that's how, as a nonprofit, we stay alive is they're able to sponsor our stream, um, and, you know, actually have, have some money coming in. And then the other side of that is, um, American Family Insurance also has a lot of people who have really, really deep knowledge in the insurance space.

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[00:15:52] So they send those people as mentors, uh, to our sessions, you know, specifically for that risk and insurance stream. And they're able to also give, you know, direct help to our founders to, you know, help them scale, think about their go-to-market, you know, potential investment. Um, so those are kind of the two sides

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[00:16:10] Jacob Miller: Okay. 

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[00:16:11] Uh, which brings me to my next question of like, kind of like the founders. Like how, you know, how do they find out about like CDL and the partnerships here? Are the founders typically from Wisconsin/Madison, or do you bring founders from all over the world to, "Hey, we're gonna bring you into Madison and we're gonna connect you"?

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[00:16:29] And, and maybe they work remotely most of the year, but then they come in for certain things. Is that, is that pretty common? I'm curious like what the makeup of the founders geographically, like where they kind of come from.

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[00:16:39] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, we search, uh, worldwide. Um, I'm also the, the recruitment lead for health and wellness, so when I'm looking for a company, it's not necessarily Wisconsin. Um, we will tend to have maybe one to four companies that are from Wisconsin or the Midwest out of our 20 that come through every single year, but, but it's, it's global.

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[00:17:03] Um, you know, we have companies from the UK to Israel to, you know, a- anywhere that you can think of really. What, what I'm looking for when I look for a company, is something that is massively scalable, either monetarily or social good-wise, and that just fits our general health and wellness thesis. So I think that's what really makes it interesting too, is we're able to give our, our mentors, and our general community a look at, you know, what is happening in this industry all over the world

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[00:17:33] Jacob Miller: Yeah. 

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[00:17:34] When, when, uh, founders from other places come to Madison or Wisconsin, what is-- what kind of surprises them about like, you know, just the capabilities here, the people here, the ecosystem here, the connections, the resources? I mean, yeah, what, what have you overheard from folks as they kind of go through your program?

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[00:17:51] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, they always end up loving it. 'Cause when you think of Wisconsin, what do you think of? You think of cheese, beer, cows. Like, there's no- there's not gonna be anything out here. But really it is, it is a hub and, um, everyone's very interested in Epic, 'cause a lot of our, our people that come through, uh, CDL, um, ultimately do have to be connected or work with some way, into Epic Systems.

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[00:18:16] So when they come for session, they usually come a couple days early, and they'll go through the Epic Systems campus, and that, that thing is huge. it is like its own self-sustaining organism. People are absolutely blown away by that. and I think also in general, like, Madison is really a, a growing city and people don't realize, it's going to be a tech hub and it's, it's really beautiful too.

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[00:18:39] Like, people who come for first session end up coming, for almost, you know, sometimes a week or longer for, for our last session. Because they're like, "Wow, I just, I really love it. It's on this isthmus. It's gorgeous. There's a lot going on. There's a lot of other people for me to meet." So they're, they're, you know, signing up for not only CDL meetings, but you know, meetings with other people that could be helpful to them in the community.

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[00:19:02] Um, so you just don't realize until you are integrated to the system a little bit and spend some time here.

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[00:19:07] Jacob Miller: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 

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[00:19:09] I, I do want to dig into success stories. Like what, what kind of founders... Maybe, maybe talk about some of the founders that, um, have been from Wisconsin or Madison and that have gone through the program, maybe a couple highlights, uh, of who they are and kind of what they've built and, and the, the story that you've kind of seen unfold with them. 

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[00:19:27] Kai Heineman: I've seen a lot of companies grow really significantly. Um, I guess one of the first ones, um, that would come to mind, this one isn't necessarily Wisconsin, but um, they were, they were based out of Israel. they're called Droxy. Uh, they were like an AI-powered impacts companion for HR users.

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[00:19:47] Um, and when they came to us, you know, they had, I don't know, maybe five to 10 people in the company. know, they weren't really sure exactly where they were going with their go-to-market and, you know, or where they exactly where they were gonna integrate, you know, big hospital systems, small hospital systems.

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[00:20:04] Um, and through working with some of our, you know, local mentors who they're still integrated with and they still come back all the time and visit, which is absolutely crazy to me. Um, it's a, it's a long, it's a long travel to be able to do that. Um, they're now I think 100 plus maybe 200 employees. You know, they have off- they have different offices, um, across the US, and they've, they've really grown absolutely, absolutely ginormous

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[00:20:30] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

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[00:20:32] Um, and it seems like too, it's interesting, uh, that some of the, the startups that come through end up like hiring like UW students. So how, how, how does that work? What does that process kinda look like? How do you kinda connect those founders with like local talent in Madison as they're maybe going through the program?

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[00:20:49] Um, how do you guys think about that? 

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[00:20:50] Kai Heineman: at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, we actually have a CDL course. the first semester, um, in the fall you're kind of just more learning about, um, venture development, venture management, what it means to be in a startup. Um, and then I get to be connected with these students in, in their second semester, so like starting in January.

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[00:21:09] And that's where we're able to connect them directly with the startups that I'm working with. Um, so they get to kind of have a one-off project working with these, uh, working with these startups. Um, so for example, I think there was a, there was a company either one or two years ago, I've actually almost every year there, this is something that happens where, um, you know, think a computer science student is able to do like a small coding project or, you know, help on the back end of some part of, uh, the product for, for one of the startups.

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[00:21:40] And if they do good work, they just continue, continue working for them. actually even one of the... We, we also hire, um, sometimes like part-time MBA students to work directly like as a venture manager. and one of our venture managers from last year went on to work, full time and, and move to their location to, to one of the, the startups that he had been working with.

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[00:22:03] So, um, it's a really cool pipeline to see, you know, kids not necessarily go straight into, into industry or like, you know, a, a big company, but kind of take a chance on one of these small startups. It's, it's really more about like what sort of culture do you want? Do you fit into that like I want to eat, breathe, sleep in, in the startup world?

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[00:22:24] But yeah, it's kind of this cool opportunity to, you know, dip your toes in the water with the course and, and if you like that sort of thing, you do have the opportunity to take that on as a full-time position. 

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[00:22:33] Jacob Miller: what does it look like for a founder to apply to the program and like what are you looking for? Like is it, you know, do they have to have a certain amount of traction? obviously it seems like you have certain industries that you kind of focus on. what is a good founder fit for like your program?

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[00:22:49] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, that's, that's really what my focus is all summer 'cause like I said, the, the program runs October to May, so that's what I'm doing right now. I would say we kind of have a few different verticals, at least for the, the health and wellness, stream. You know, one is any sort of EHR integrated platform, uh, one is general wellness companies, uh, one is, you know, maybe like class one, maybe class two biomedical engineering devices.

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[00:23:20] We do have some of those come in as well. and one is just, uh, like general, general platforms, so platforms for, for health and wellness. in terms of like actual stage, I would say around a seed stage is typically, good for, for companies that wanna come in. you know, if you're too far along, then you already have a board of directors, you already have people telling you what to do.

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[00:23:41] You don't necessarily need a program like this. If you're too early where you really are only at the ideation stage, you know, maybe you do need a little bit more hand-holding first. You know, you need some more of those programs that are able to, to take you step by step what it means to actually start your first company, get it started.

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[00:23:58] But I would say, yeah, seed stage that you're able to, you know... We, we wanna help you be able to, to raise some funds, so you might as well come in when you need that. Um, and then sort of in those, in those verticals is-- Health and wellness is really broad, but those sort of four categories is, is most helpful

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[00:24:16] Jacob Miller: Yeah. 

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[00:24:17] What do you feel like separates a founder or a, a venture that s- tends to like thrive through your programming versus one that struggles? Like, is it, you know, um, are there personality types or just like willingness or like is it like... Yeah, 'cause you talked about like, hey, they're, they should be a little bit further along but not too far.

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[00:24:36] Yeah, w- how would you explain someone that ends up like they maybe they go through the program but they tend to struggle still? Like what, what does that look like and why does that happen?

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[00:24:43] Kai Heineman: Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, and this is in general when I'm just evaluating a company, is I put 50% emphasis on the team, which I think that surprises people. They're like, "Oh, why would you not think the product? Obviously, the product is what's going to sell." When it comes to startup, it's going to be the team that makes or breaks a company.

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[00:25:03] I would put maybe 30% emphasis on the actual product and 20% on the market, you know, do you actually have potential? Um, and what I do see time and time again is founders that really have the sense of grit. You're able to get through every single phase of startup. You're able to bootstrap, you're able to fundraise, and you're also able to wear a bunch of different hats.

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[00:25:29] You know, this, the startup life is not for, for the faint of heart. It's not for people who are like, "Okay, it's gotten a little bit hard, you know, let me, let me let off the gas pedal." Your foot has to be pedal to the metal at all times. And you know, when it gets hard, you have to still be able to show up every single day.

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[00:25:47] This is not a 9:00 to 5:00, this is 24/7, which it's kind of for the crazy people. Let's, let's be super honest. It's not, it's not for, for mild. Um, but it definitely brings in, um, really interesting characters and it- it's what makes it fun

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[00:26:03] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Is there anything else that you wish applicants understood, like, before they applied? Like, do you realize what you're getting into here? Like, is there anything like that? 

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[00:26:11] Kai Heineman: I wouldn't say necessarily. You know, with, with the actual Creative Destruction Lab, it's pretty light touch. We just wanna help you get to where you wanna go. But when it comes to startup and getting your, uh, getting yourself into startup, I would say that is what I would want you to know, is this is not a 9:00 to 5:00.

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[00:26:29] This is not a, you know, "Hey, I wanna be able to, to do something on the side." This is a 24/7 thing. And if you want people to invest in you, you know, time-wise, money-wise, whatever it is, you have to be all in 1,000%. 

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[00:26:43] Jacob Miller: Yeah. And I'd imagine it's, there's probably not as much hand-holding, 'cause I feel like some people might be looking for something that's a little bit more, uh, like hands-on. But it sounds like you're, you push them in the right directions, you ask like the really hard questions, but at the end of the day, like they ultimately have to have the initiative to like do the thing.

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[00:27:03] Otherwise, like nothing, nothing gets done, you know, as, as you said. So, um, yeah, d- that's, that's kind of like the sense I'm getting is like, hey, this, this program's not for the faint of heart. Um, just like building any, building any business is not for the faint of heart. It's not for everybody. It's really hard, um, and it takes effort.

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[00:27:20] So it, it sounds like your program's like for people that have a lot of initiative, they have some traction in their business, maybe got a little bit of funding, like pre-seed funding, or maybe they're bootstrapping and they have some traction. but they're ready to like say, "Hey, I wanna be battle tested.

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[00:27:33] I want someone to come in and like really challenge what I'm doing and help me become a better version of myself and make the business better. And then also like if we need, um, more resources like capital or talent to, or distribution, um, they can help me find those connections." Is that-- That's kind of like, that's kind of like how I'm synthesizing all this is like, okay, that's kind of what this feels like.

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[00:27:56] So, um, is that w- would you say that's correct, or did I miss anything there? So

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[00:28:00] Kai Heineman: Yeah. No, that's great. You're hired. I love

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[00:28:02] it. 

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[00:28:02] I 

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[00:28:02] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Nice. Nice. 

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[00:28:05] Um, yeah, I'm actually curious for anyone that's listening that maybe, like, is looking to get involved, like whether they want to mentor or, um, or just learn more or be a part of what you're doing in some, some way, like be, be that connector that someone might need.

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[00:28:22] Um, what does that look like? How do you kinda... I mean, obviously you've probably been doing out- outreach for like your own networks, uh, and obviously through the UW-Madison network. Um, but what does that-- If someone's curious to get involved in any of those ways, uh, what does that look like and, and I guess how do they reach out?

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[00:28:38] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, no, great question. I mean, number one, come talk to me. You know, find me on LinkedIn, my email's on the CDL website. You know, I-- this is what I, this is what I live, eat, sleep, breathe. Um, so I would love to talk to you if you're interested. Um, you know, whether you're, you wanna be a mentor, or you, you're just a student, or you wanna learn more about startup, I love talking about this all day.

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[00:29:00] otherwise, you know, take a look at the Creative Destruction, um, lab website. You know, there is a plethora of information on there. You're able to see all the different streams, all the different sites we have, um, all the different staff we have. So if you're interested in a different stream, you know, you can reach out to them directly.

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[00:29:15] You can come and reach out to me. I can get you connected. it's a really inclusive community, and it's, it's all about learning. You know, we want more people here. We wanna, we wanna help you move forward. And that, that's really, that's the mantra of CDL is to, to build something massive. And we just want to help accelerate you

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[00:29:33] Jacob Miller: Yeah, that's awesome. 

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[00:29:37] So are there any programs coming up? you know, what's the upcoming deadline? Who should be applying to it? Um, obviously they can go on the website and I can put a link in the description and on the page, page as well, the episode page for this so people can, can find it.

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[00:29:48] Um, but yeah, maybe talk about the upcoming, uh, kind of cohort and, and how people can, can apply and what that looks like.

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[00:29:55] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So our, um, our next cohort runs about, uh, late October to early May. So our applications close, uh, July 24th, end of day. Um, so if you are a startup who is in the general science and technology-based industry and you feel like this is a good fit for you, you know, like I said, I'm just the health and wellness lead.

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[00:30:18] We have everything from oceans to agri-food to, to quantum to AI. You know, if you're anyone in this general industry, hit apply. Just try it. Or if you're not, if you're, if you're not ready to hit apply, you know, just reach out to us, talk to us. You know, we have dozens and dozens of people that would be happy to talk to you

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[00:30:38] Jacob Miller: Awesome, awesome. 

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[00:30:39] Uh, anything else as we wrap up that you feel like is good to know about what you guys do in the program, uh, as, uh, as people are applying, things that they should be keeping in mind, um, and, uh, stuff like that? 

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[00:30:51] Kai Heineman: You know, I don't want to go back to the same thing. But if you are a startup founder, just be, just be prepared to be all in. You know, like I said, the, the CDL program, like that's not the intensive thing. Being in this industry is the intensive thing. But, um, it's, uh... Just, just remember that, you know, being a founder is a super, super lonely path, and being able to build a community of people around you that want to help you, that want to accelerate you, that will be the difference between if you succeed or if you fail, is actually building the community, having warm intros.

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[00:31:24] The difference between a warm intro and a cold intro, that makes all the difference in the world. So keep that in the back of your mind, and that's exactly why CDL was created

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[00:31:32] Jacob Miller: All right. Awesome. I love it. Cool. Well, thanks again for, for being here, uh, as we wrap up our conversation. Uh, really, really appreciate it. I think it's great that we have a diverse set of programming available in Wisconsin. You know, CDL's just one of them. Obviously, there's gener8tor, like you said, and, and other programs like that.

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[00:31:50] Um, you know, we all kind of play a part in the ecosystem and, and obviously we can-- every group can only serve so many founders at once. So it's like, you know, it's, it's good to see that there's just more options on the table for founders, uh, at different times of the year and stuff like that. And I also love that your program is a little bit more intensive and a longer timeframe 'cause, like, sometimes it's like, "Oh, we have this eight to 12-week program."

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[00:32:14] While that-- those can be good and they serve a purpose, I think there's something to be said about like, "Hey, we're gonna be your ally along this journey for, like, a longer period of time because we know it takes time to, to make, make progress." Um, but it doesn't mean that, like, you'll be working less. It's like, hey, like this, this is-- this year, well, obviously, you know, being a founder and, and starting a, a, a business is a commitment in itself.

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[00:32:39] Um, but just saying, "Hey, I'm gonna go all in on this program, um, and for this next year, like, I'm gonna make sure that I'm, you know, getting the most out of my time with you," kind of thing. So, so yeah. So I just wanna say thank you for everything you guys are doing. I think it's great. Uh, not, not only serving founders in Wisconsin, but bringing founders from other places to Wisconsin and exposing them to the, the resources and the people and the talent that are here.

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[00:33:01] So, you know, everybody wins in, in that scenario. So yeah. So I just wanna say thanks for being here and, uh, best of luck with your, your next cohort and finding, finding those founders and, uh, yeah, and good luck. Yeah.

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[00:33:13] Kai Heineman: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Jacob

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[00:33:15] Jacob Miller: Yeah. Awesome. 

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